Discussion:
Wiinners' Envelopes: Some take, some don't
(too old to reply)
Sue Moe
2004-09-21 08:26:03 UTC
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Watching some bouts on-line, it looks like some winners squat down,
make some hand motions, receive an envelope from the gyoji served
on a fan or thin plate, get up and leave the dohyo. However, some
other winners appear to squat, wave their hand and leave without
an envelope.

What's going on here? When do you take an envelope? Not?
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Jarkko K
2004-09-21 09:53:34 UTC
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Post by Sue Moe
Watching some bouts on-line, it looks like some winners squat down,
make some hand motions, receive an envelope from the gyoji served
on a fan or thin plate, get up and leave the dohyo. However, some
other winners appear to squat, wave their hand and leave without
A rikishi only gets an envelope with money in it if someone has placed
that money in that match. "This money to be given to the winner"

JKK
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Sue Moe
2004-09-21 16:37:26 UTC
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Post by Jarkko K
Post by Sue Moe
Watching some bouts on-line, it looks like some winners squat down,
make some hand motions, receive an envelope from the gyoji served
on a fan or thin plate, get up and leave the dohyo. However, some
other winners appear to squat, wave their hand and leave without
A rikishi only gets an envelope with money in it if someone has
placed that money in that match. "This money to be given to the winner"
Who is "someone"? The Kyokai itself? A corporate sponsor? A
wealthy patron? Gamblers / yakuza? Can more than one person
put something into one envelope? Is it made public who offers
the incentives? Do the corporations or private persons get anything
out of it, like "lunch with the winner" or an autograph or handprint?
A tax writeoff?

How is it decided which match will have a "cash incentive"? If from the
Kyokai, I guess it could be a random pool ("match number 5 on day 6,
regardless of participants, will have a cash prize"). Except at the very
top (yokozuna, ozeki), it does seem to be kind of random throughout
the maegashira matches.

I guess it could be on a specific rikishi is order to try to get both fighters
to fight their best, although that implies that you DON'T get the best
matches if there is no prize.

Do the rikishi know ahead of time whether there is an envelope and
how much is in it? What are typical amounts? I know this will sound
like a TV game show, but are the prizes always cash or are they
sometimes merchandise ("this coupon good for brand new TV!")?

And lastly, I assume the prize goes to the winner no matter what.
That is, it is not a conditional prize ("Asashoryu, but only if he wins.
If Asa loses, no prize to the winner.").

Thank you.
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MAGNUSBUMSKI
2004-09-22 03:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sue Moe
Post by Jarkko K
Post by Sue Moe
Watching some bouts on-line, it looks like some winners squat down,
make some hand motions, receive an envelope from the gyoji served
on a fan or thin plate, get up and leave the dohyo. However, some
other winners appear to squat, wave their hand and leave without
A rikishi only gets an envelope with money in it if someone has
placed that money in that match. "This money to be given to the winner"
Who is "someone"? The Kyokai itself? A corporate sponsor? A
wealthy patron? Gamblers / yakuza? Can more than one person
put something into one envelope? Is it made public who offers
the incentives? Do the corporations or private persons get anything
out of it, like "lunch with the winner" or an autograph or handprint?
A tax writeoff?
Usually a corporate sponsor that may or may not have links to
unsavoury thugs. But then again, the Kyokai has been accused of
consorting with the punch-perm crowd as well. The banners that are
paraded around before a bout explicitly name the sponsor. Rikishi
often spend their evenings at parties where they stand around, pose
and grunt. This results in the accumulation of still more fat
envelopes filled with 10,000 yen notes. Akebono has been quoted as
stating. "Yeah, we go to parties and stand around looking pretty".
Post by Sue Moe
How is it decided which match will have a "cash incentive"? If from the
Kyokai, I guess it could be a random pool ("match number 5 on day 6,
regardless of participants, will have a cash prize"). Except at the very
top (yokozuna, ozeki), it does seem to be kind of random throughout
the maegashira matches.
The sponsors decide. It's not random.
Post by Sue Moe
I guess it could be on a specific rikishi is order to try to get both fighters
to fight their best, although that implies that you DON'T get the best
matches if there is no prize.
Not at all. There are many factors that determine a bout's intensity.
Post by Sue Moe
Do the rikishi know ahead of time whether there is an envelope and
how much is in it? What are typical amounts? I know this will sound
like a TV game show, but are the prizes always cash or are they
sometimes merchandise ("this coupon good for brand new TV!")?
Yes, they do. All they have to do is notice all the elves walking
around with the banners before their bout begins. The prizes are
always cash. Rikishi don't want toasters. I saw Moose on a TV
game-show and he blurted out, in English, "I don't want no fuckin'
prizes, just give me money". Konishiki reprimanded him, on air, with a
curt "Hey, cool it".
Post by Sue Moe
And lastly, I assume the prize goes to the winner no matter what.
That is, it is not a conditional prize ("Asashoryu, but only if he wins.
If Asa loses, no prize to the winner.").
Correct, although the Kyokai gets a cut for "taxes", "expenses", etc.
mr.sumo.snr
2004-09-23 16:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sue Moe
Watching some bouts on-line, it looks like some winners squat down,
make some hand motions, receive an envelope from the gyoji served
on a fan or thin plate, get up and leave the dohyo. However, some
other winners appear to squat, wave their hand and leave without
an envelope.
What's going on here? When do you take an envelope? Not?
The banners that are paraded around the dohyo prior to the actual bout are
advertising banners - that's why NHK pans back to a auditorium crowd shot
during the parade (NHK being a commercial-free channel). Each banner costs
(will need help from elsewhere for a definitive answer) between 60,000
to100,000 yen. The winning rikishi in that particular bout will pocket a
percentage of the gross (I think around 60%). The Sumo Kyokai take a
percentage towards something like an injured wrestlers fund. I don't know
but I would guess the venue gets a cut too - dunno though.

Anyway, if there are no sponsors banners then there's not cash to pocket!
Hence just the squat and Harry Potter gesture. But the bottom line is, when
Asashouryu fights Kaio and Chiyotaikai at the weekend there'll be at least
20 banners for each bout. So whoever wins will be pocketing a cool $10,000
for around 20 seconds work and about 5 minutes of calisthenics!

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jonathan
Nomen Nescio
2004-09-23 17:40:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by mr.sumo.snr
The banners that are paraded around the dohyo prior to
the actual bout are advertising banners - that's why NHK
pans back to a auditorium crowd shot during the parade
(NHK being a commercial-free channel). Each banner costs
(will need help from elsewhere for a definitive answer)
between 60,000 to 100,000 yen.
100,000 yen = approx US$1000. That is CHEAP for product
placement or ads, by US standards. How many people watch
the NHK Sumo broadcast? Is there a Nielson service in
Japan to get the "rating" and "share" of viewers?

I'd guess that sumo lags behind Japanese baseball.

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